tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 20, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT
>> good for bail. let's play "hardball". >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington leading off tonight, george zimmerman on the stand. it's a well-known principle. defense lawyers don't let their clients testify but today is it is bail hearing covered by all three cable networks. george zimmerman took the stand and told the parents of trayvon martin that he was sorry for their loss, that he did not know how old trayvon was and that he thought he was slightly younger than himself. the judge set bail at $150,000. also on trial is floor daz stand your ground law. florida led the nation in implementing the law. now that governor rick scott has designated a taqk@uráup'd your ground, could it set the stand for repeal? plus, republicans are discouraged about mitt romney's prospects and democrats plan to make them more discouraged.
give up the romney is a flip-flopper argument and hold him to all of those right wing and there's more fallout. three more agents are out. finally, let me finish with the number that will determine whether obama or romney gets elected this year. we begin with george zimmerman's day in court. well, i always start these conversations by saying i am not a lawyer. i listen to those who are. let's take a look at this. george sfwlim zim is speaking in court and addressing the parents right there in court of trayvon martin. let's watch. >> i wanted to say that i am sorry for the loss of your son. i did not know how old he was. i thought he was a little younger than i am. >> that's something that the defendant said he wanted to do
earlier but did it in court today. what do you make of it? >> what is interesting, the family of trayvon martin found that very off putting and disingenuous. he has had opportunity to address the family before at which no such statements of con trugs was included. he left a message for a friend frank in which he expressed no remorse. when i spoke with one of the attorneys for theç martin parents, they felt that this was a performance for the cameras, about humanizing george zimmerman. >> yes, but what did he say was the reason? i umpbds his statement was that he was told by counsel not to try to contact the family. isn't that the case? >> well, that is what he is saying now. again, we only heard for the first time that he wanted -- >> is that true? >> the family has essentially said they have had no contact with george zimmerman. >> we know that. but let's go over to mr. coffee. would it be normal to tell a defendant or potential defendant not to contact the victim?
>> of course it would be. and it would be because it creates the risk that you might be able to go somewhere when you expose your client to examination. the judge kept a very short rein on the prosecutor but it was an unnecessary risk and didn't seem to accomplish anything for george zimmerman. >> i'm always surprised by things that happen in court. let me ask you this, mr. coffee. is it normal for a prosecutor in a bond hearing to say to the person, the defendant in this case, you committed a crime, that day you committed a crime, to basically say he's guilty and act as if he's been found guilty. is that normal septemberable parlance in the courtroom. >> did it surprise you that he got away with it?
>> it surprisedç me that the defense did not object. important day for george zimmerman, is he going to be out on bail. >> joy-ann, were you surprised about that? he said you committed a crime right there in court. >> absolutely. and he challenged him. the presentation of the prosecution was as much as he could to try to cross-examine george zimmerman but as kendall coffey said there was a tight rein on him. >> he didn't cross-examine him. he said you committed a crime. he just said it. >> the idea, of course, is the presumption from the prosecution is that he is a criminal. that's the presumption. the defense is trying to mitigate at every turn what was in that proffer from prosecutors. they were trying to say that confrontation was problematic.
it should have been met rather than confronted. >> isn't confrontation -- isn't confrontation a loaded term? >> absolutely. but it's also what the prosecution is trying to accomplish. they are trying to prove second-degree murder so each side wants to present evidence in their best light. >> let's look at this further. he said he didn't change his story. here he is denying that he's been giving conflicting accounts. here's zimmerman again on the stand. >> isn't it true that in some of those statements when you were confronted about your inconsistencies, you said i don't remember. >> outside the scope of direct examination. i would object, your honor. >> i'll give himç a lileeway, a lot but a little. >> isn't it correct you would say i don't remember? >> thank you, your honor. >> would you agree that you changed your story as it went along? >> absolutely not. >> mr. coffey, let me ask you this question. is this the normal thing with a
bond hearing where you try to establish the credibility of the witness? >> the prosecutor was trying to take a little opening that he had and be as aggressive as he could. he was also aggressive cross-examining george zimmerman's wife and father, where they were very careful about holding back was their best evidence. anybody that thinks that the best evidence that the prosecution has was fully displayed today is making the wrong take away from this hearing. >> your thought, joy-ann? >> i think that's true. the prosecutor actually said at the end of his presentation, look, we've got a lot more. you've got to presume that they were trying not to show too much of their case. there can be a hearing basically on stand your ground. they don't want to give defense attorneys a preview of their case which would give them an advantage going into that next hearing. >> let's take a look at this. here's george zimmerman's father questioned via speaker phone. he was asked about george's --
his son's appearance following the shooting that night. let's listen to his case, his testimony, at least right today. >> so what did george's head look like when you saw him the day after? >> well, his face was swollenç quite a bit. he had a protective cover over his nose. his lip was swollen and cut, and there were two vertical gashes on the back of his head. >> have you seen any pictures of that? >> i did not take any pictures. >> have you seen any of them? >> yes, i have. >> who showed them to you? >> i saw them on the news today. >> the state attorney's office hasn't shown you any of those pictures? >> no, they did. >> let's take a look at the pictures. there it is. i guess there is that gash there, two vertical gashes on
the back of his head. i don't know how to read injuries. joy-ann, your thoughts about this evidence now that's it's all over the country? >> the question i have is when was that taken? because if you look at the time line presented by the police report george zimmerman within minutes was confronted by police officers. i spoke with emt officials that said florida law would have prohibited them from taking any pictures. if a neighbor walked on to this crime scene before he was treated, he was treated in the back of a patrol car for cuts and bleeding nose. when did a nonmember of the investigative team get to take a picture of the back of his head? >> so you're suggesting that the account is inaccurate? >> no. >> well, if you're saying that, you're saying it's not a picture of him that night. >> no. i'm saying did other people get to come on to that crime scene? did they take it atç the scene? if people not directly involved with the investigation were close enough to the crime scene
or on the scene before he was treated, that means that they encountered george zimmerman while the police were still investigating. so that was my question. >> why is that relevant to his guilt or innocence or whatever happened that night? >> i don't think it's relevant to that. i think it goes to the way that sanford police handled this case, which has been sharply criticized, not just by trayvon martin ds family but people i know in law enforcement. was this case thoroughly checked and they did not do a thorough investigation. >> i think you're making a broader question about the way they dealt with. again, with the presumption of innocence, don't like the whole manner of how this guy, this kid, wait he was treated that night and how almost he was irrelevantly treated, they assumed that he was the bad guy. o'mara, the defense attorney, questioned as to who started the fight, which is a critical question, between zimmerman and martin. let's watch this inner-place. >> do you know who started the
fight? >> do i know? >> yes. >> no. >> do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight? >> no. >> you know, let me go to mr. coffey here. kendall, there are a number of steps in this, when did the encounter begin? we can assume the encounter began because he was trailing this guy, he was suspicious, whatever. he was suspicious of him. they confronted each other at some point. does it matter under the law ofç se self-defense who throws the first punch? does that matter? >> well, it certainly can and that's why i was frankly surprised by the gap in that part of the testimony. certainly the state is going to get to work on fixing that. because if in fact it develops that trayvon martin started the fight or that the state can't prove who started the fight, and i'm not saying by any means that he did, that's a problem.
it certainly helps george zimmerman with his self-defense. but we're very early on in this case. again, we've got to emphasize that the prosecution has a lot more ammunition. that is something that they got to save up for the stand your ground hearing because if there is such a hearing, it gives the judge the ability to throw this whole case out and that's going to be a much more actively contested hearing than anything we saw today. >> well, the prosecutor, bernie de la rionda at his press conference. >> please be patient and wait for the trial. thank you very much. >> this is so tricky, joy-ann. i'm going to try to do it here with a presumption of innocence. i think everybody is going to be watching this with all kinds of attitude, right? >> absolutely. krits, the bottom line is, this case has already been litigated, rela relate gated on twitter and on blogs. i think that raises a lot of
troubling questions about jury selection. is the entire jury pool in the country tainted and can zimmerman canç a fair trial? >> what scares me, if we can watch a tape of everything that happened that night from the beginning to the end, i think there would be a difference of attitude about guilt and innocence. there's so many different perspectives, so much history ever since the first slave arrived in the united states, the attitude of history here. you can't push it aside, i don't think. any way, thank you, joy-ann reid, kendall coffey, to you as well. coming up, florida led the country with its stand your ground law. after the trayvon martin death, can it be the first to repeal that law? that's ahead and it's coming here in a minute. this is "hardball." my sister's . i told you it was perfect for you guys. literally across the street from her sister. [ banker ] but someone else bought it before they could get their offer together. we really missed a great opportunity --
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in florida, there is a tight race. president obama is up 2. but that's not much. now to ohio where obama is up a bit more comfortably. he's surrounded by 39. those are the two to watch. we'll be right back. i'm gonna...use these. ♪ give me just a little more time ♪ [ female announcer ] unlike mops, swiffer can maneuver into tight spaces without the hassle and its wet mopping cloths can clean better in half the time, so you don't miss a thing. mom? ahhhh! ahhhh! no it's mommy! [ female announcer ] swiffer. better clean in half the time. or your money back. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national.
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and this is to remind you that you could save hundreds! yeah, that'll certainly stick with me. we'll take it. go, big money! i mean, go. it's your break, honey. same coverage, more savings. now, that's progressive. call or click today. i'm a supporter of the first amendment. i also want to make sure that we do not rush to conclusions about the stand your ground law or any other laws in our state. we look forward to hearing from the citizens in our state about their concerns and recommendations for keeping our state safe. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was now a somewhat famous florida governor scott. the 17-member task force headed by florida's republicanç
lieutenant governor jennifer carroll. she also voted in the take your guns to work law. senator gary is a democratic senator who passed the stand your ground law i don't live in the heads that you guys live in. the pro gun thing, i don't get t. i don't get it, i don't get it. sometimes i think you want to get back to the saloon with what is his name? marshal dylan and trying to clean up -- i have to start with something very basic. stand your ground, if you're on the street and someone is really trying to kill you, you have the right to defend yourself. but what is this gun fetish that you are? why are you voting for all of
this -- there are concealed weapons licenses, almost 1 million people walking around in florida today. you go into a movie theater, you have 20 guns in the movie theater with you. what is that about? >> the law is a result of the looting after the hurricanes in florida. >> oh, give me a break. the looting after the hurricanes. so otherwise you put a sunset on this and it only lasted through the hurricanes? >> no. it's a good policy. we try to protect the home because a person has a right to defend themselves in their home and a lot of people don't live in housing. they live in cars. >> senato)d i think you're in the bs land when you say to defend your home. it's a right to walk the streets with a gun in your pocket. why? >> well, this is america. and the constitution allows you
to bear arms. >> no, your law allows it. >> just like other states allow concealed weapons, too. >> i think you guys are flipped out. you're part of this problem, too. do you think everyone should walk into a restaurant armed? really, there are certain people that unless they can pack, they won't let them in to have a meal. this is saloon stuff. your thought, judge bell? >> well, i'm on the task force that the governor appointed because my experience with the general law of using justifiable force and that's what you call the stand your ground law is about. it's not about guns. it's about whether or not and in what circumstances you're allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself or your family or others. >> so what else are we talking
about besides guns? you said it's not about guns. what do you mean? >> well, chris, it's about public safety. >> judge, you're on the stand here. you said it wasn't about guns, stand your ground. well, in the trayvon martin case, it's clearly about guns. if mr. zimmerman didn't have a gun on him, don't know what who have happened but the other guy wouldn't have been shot. >>ç well, what if he had a kni or a sword or a bat? there are other weapons that could have been used in an appropriate or inappropriate way. the purpose of the task force is to look at the changes to the law and the law itself does not address the issue of the right to bear arms or concealed weapons. the law in question is justifiable use of force and the presumptions and immunity and other things there. >> why do you think -- do you think it's a good idea to review this law and see whether it's a good law or not? >> yes, i do i think it's
appropriate that we go across the state of florida to review those cases suspicious and see if we need to go back to tallahassee and tweak it and -- >> because it's an easy defense, isn't it? >> absolutely not. i think it's being abused throughout the nation. >> give me an example. >> here in sanford, florida, with trayvon martin and mr. zimmerman. >> wait a minute. let's not litigate that case. find another case. you're a state senator. you must know other instances where it's been abused? >> there was a case in jacksonville where a person was walking down the street and he utilized -- he ended up killing the person and used the stand your ground defense and he won. >> here's the question i have, judge. everybody knows in this country,
especially in tough neighborhoods you're goingto have street fights, people in ballrooms, that's when all hell breaks loose and one guy gets through a fight with another guy and the other guy pulls the gun and kills him. is that what we're talking about, where it's clearly a killing, which is totally criminal but the guy gets off because -- the women gets off by saying, the other guy threatened me and there's no way to disapprove that defense? >> that's part of the -- yeah, that's part of the problem in this case and is the granting of immunity and presumptions that you were fearful. it's primarily when you're in your home or car. there was a case in northern florida where a gentleman was in his automobile and somebody attacked him but then he was being pulled away and as he was being pulled away, the gentleman in the car shot him.
>> i see. >> and the immunity applied. so i think it just says -- why would it apply -- why would he be able to shoot somebody under stand your ground if the other guy was no longer a threat to him? >> well, because there's a presumption that he was in fear and there was some presumption that the gentleman was intending to hurt him and then there's that immunity. there's a lot that needs to be looked at by the task force and i think this is a great task force. there are people from a broad racial background, geographical background, interests from different communities and i think it's a great opportunity -- a tragedy occurred in trayvon martin and we can be destructive,ç divisi, or constructive and bring an effort to look at it and bring balance where necessary. >> well said. thank you so much, judge bell. please come back on the show. i'm sure we'll be talking about
this as you proceed on your task force. up next, chris christie want you to know he never falls asleep during a springsteen concert. he listens to the boss quite intently, in fact. he took on that allegation as only he can coming up in the side show. you're watching "hardball." [ male announcer ] with six indulgently layered desserts, all at 150 calories or less, there's definitely a temptations for you.
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now for the side show. yesterday i talked about massachusetts voters' latest beef with senator scott brown that he accepted a sizeable contribution from the president of the new york yankees. today scott brown joined the team as a part of the 100th birthday celebration and they didn't pass up the chance to tie him to the evil empire. >> you had scott brown here.
>> just playing around. was just having fun. i want to announce to the crowd, that's fun. >> well, the progressive superpac american bridge is also reminding voters that brown has a rocky history with the sox. back in 2001, he supported a plan to move the sox out of fenway to foxborough, massachusetts where the patriots play. >> i know lots of things have changed over the years, but not fenway park. there's been a lot of talk over the years about replacing the park, but that would have been a mistake. >> perhaps not so surprisingly, brown forgets to remind ç listeners he once wrote a letter asking the red sox to move their team to foxborough.
>> scott brown asked that the team move to the football stadium in foxborough. >> the things they fight about out there. last week the new york post reported that the new jersey governor chris christie had been spotted dozing off at a bruce springsteen concert in madison square garden. the sighting was a hot topic in a press conference yesterday. >> what happened, during "rocky ground," which was kind of a spiritual song, i closed my eyes and listened to the song. when i was contorting myself, no one took pictures of that. i have never fallen asleep during a bruce springsteen show. i will never fall asleep during a bruce springsteen show. >> i guess he's been to more than 120 springsteen concerts and have been lobbying the boss to play in the casino in atlantic city. they're concerned that mitt romney can't win this election, and the obama campaign wants to make sure they're right by
making romney pay for all his right wing pongs positions he took. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." in the middle of a department store. some parents might have scolded him. ♪ jonathan's parents gave him... gymnastics lessons. ♪ it's amazing how far you can go with a little help along the way. ♪ td ameritrade. proud sponsor of the 2012 u.s. olympic team. ahh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! easy. hi. cascade kitchen counselor. look! over time, a competing gel can leave cloudy hard water deposits, but cascade complete pacs help leave glasses sparkling. cascade. love it or your money back.
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i'm milissa. here's what is happening. president obama's re-election campaign ended with just over $100 million on hand while mitt romney had just over 10 million. the university of colorado tried to crush one of the largest pot celebrations where the gathering takes place. we're learning of two more bird çstrikes. hillary clinton's plane experienced one on thursday. a delta flight was hit on thursday. back to "hardball."
welcome back to "hardball." do republicans think mitt romney is already doomed right now? take a look at what jonathan martin wrote in politico. poll after poll indicates the presidential campaign is a dead heat but you wouldn't know it by talking to many republican professionals. if you gave them truth serum, they would tell you that they think mitt romney would lose. under the table, there is pervasive pessimism among republicans about romney's prospects this fall among his first tasks as nominee in waiting is to convince members of his own party that he can win. well, are republicans looking past mitt romney to 2016? public service in texas at a&m
and howard fineman is here. with all of the respect that goes to a former white house chief of staff, we start with you. why do we keep getting these whips of disinterest, of pessimism about romney? they don't seem that excited about this guy? >> chris, why would you use a french term? no, seriously, republicans are getting enthused about mitt romney.ç he's putting together a good campaign. there was some thinking he wasn't the best nominee, he wasn't the best candidate. he was, and he was a great president. i think mitt romney will be a great president. he's putting together a team. there is no second guessing about the mitt romney nomination, we're all waiting to see who he will pick as a running mate. >> are you excited about mitt
romney being a nominee? >> yes, i am. >> you're excited? >> i am. >> you don't look excited. >> mitt romney is a leader. he has the capacity to lead this nation. i watched him make a big difference in salt lake city and he certainly made a difference in massachusetts, which is a tough state. >> howard, you do a lot of reporting. is this the reality out there among professionals? republicans? >> i think they're trying to get over the mood that jonathan martin described accurately in his piece. i think they're trying to get there. they're not trying to get there by way of saying how much they love mitt romney himself. i think andy may be a bit of an exception there. mostly they're saying he's going to have a gangbusters
professional campaign, he's running against the president who can be beaten, and he's running at a time when the economy is still very dicey and he does have legitimate business experience.ç in other words, they're trying to will themselves into getting excited about it. if you look at the polls, mitt romney -- >> you know how funny this sounds, don't you? >> mitt romney has now consolidated the republican vote in the polls, the question is whether those people turn up. >> they kind of talked themselves into being -- indiana governor mitch daniels had some strong words about the romney campaign saying he's too focused on the wealthy as opposed to people who are struggling to get the money. he told the indianapolis star newspaper, quote, you have to campaign to govern not just so win, you have to spend the precious time and dollars explaining what's at stake in a constructive program to make
life better. and, as i say, look at everything through the lens of folks who have yet to achieve. romney doesn't talk that way. is that something he needs to do, is to find some way, andy, of talking to people who aren't as successful, and when he's always talking about how successful his family is as his has been. >> i agree. i love mitch daniels and i actually respect him a lot. i was encouraging him to run for president. mitt romney will be our nominee, and i hope that governor romney listens to mitch daniels, i know that he will, and i think his campaign will be a very robust campaign. we don't get to pick the perfect nominee of our parties. we get to have the candidate run for president who represent our party, and mitt romney is going to represent our party. he'll do a great job. he'll be a great president because he has the courage to make tough decisions. he's got the wisdom to give ç thought to those decisions in the context of our economy and our people, and i think he'll do a good job. there are just as many democrats
who have angst about the democratic ticket as well as the republican ticket. i know my democratic friends think should biden be replaced by hillary clinton, i hear it all the time. some of them even say there's a little buyer's remorse with president obama. >> who do you hang out with? i know what you're talking about. i think you have a good point. i hear the same thing you hear. let's take a look at this. this is one of the bosses of your party, andy. his name is grober normquist. he told politico, quote, this is not taft-eisenhower or goldwater-rockefeller. we're not nominating a candidate to tell the party what direction to go. we are republicans. we know what we're doing and won't worry. we just want a guy to sign the bills.
you want this guy to be a functionary that is going to sign the bills that you guys passed. what a low leader. >> i worked with president reagan, i worked with president h.w. bush and george w. bush. i want a president who can make tough decisions, and i believe mitt romney will do that. he made tough decisions in the business world, he certainly made them in the political world. he has the capacity to be a good decider, and he will make tough decisions, implement them well, and i think we'll be a better country because of it. >> who is mitt romney?ç from massachusetts he was the guy who was pro choice, he was sophisticated about things like science and certainly didn't say he didn't believe in evolution when he was governor of massachuses. he was a moderate in terms of all social issues and then he went out running for president and screaming anti--immigrant candidate who is far to the
right on that issue, who has said he doesn't want anything done about climate change, is pro life. is he the guy who ran this year or did he run as governor of massachusetts? who is mitt romney? >> i've known romney for a very long time. he is a very private person. but if you look at his life, his life speaks volume. because he walks the walk. he is the real thing when it comes to family values. he is the real thing when it comes to concern about fellow americans. he's the real thing about making decisions and has a capacity to make tough decisions because he's done it so many times. so i'm very comfortable with him and i'm excited about his candidacy. i think the republican party is going to be in a good position as we move to the general election. the democrats didn't have a primary battle but there was still a lot of primary debate among democrats and they are not real thrilled with the picket that they have put forward. >> did you see how he answered that question, howard? >> how he didn't answer that question? >> i understand why he didn't answer it because he's got that massachusetts accent.
he can't deny he witnessed -- >> i've covered andy for years. i think he's one of the most straightforward guys. no. no. no. andy, you said, i think, i love mitch daniels, ió[ñ tried to convince him to run for president. >> i did. >> that sort of explains the situation. i think there are a lot of people in the party, including andy carr -- >> andy, you have a tough job and this is going to make it tougher. >> yes. >> let's make it tougher for you. let's look at this new poll that just came out. this is fascinating. let's take a look at this obama versus romney. among latinos, 69% to 22% among latinos. that's a pretty strong number. among younger voters, 18 to 34. 80% to 34%. 60% to 34%. women, 53% to 41%.
independent voters, 44-34. these numbers are really triumphant for the president. highway does mitt romney change the mind of latinos? he's been bashing this campaign saying he wants them to self-deport and then young people, how does he become hip? how does he convince people that he's not from the yahoo party and when he's been a right winger all throughout the primary. >> first of all, it's very, very early. polls today aren't necessarily going to predict where people are by a mile when it comes to november. we're still two generations away from the general election. >> okay. howard? >> i think the latino problem is one that mitt romney himself haç
acknowledged. don't forget, the guys that andy is working for or through, at the george w. bush school there, at texas a&m -- >> george h.w. bush. >> i'm confused. he's not a southern methodist. >> texas a&m university. >> okay. by the way -- >> let's say that the son won over 40% of the hispanic vote, especially in the second election. and i don't think a republican win -- can win with those kinds of numbers. that's -- of the numbers that you showed, they are more important. >> we have time to work. a lot of people in america are not paying attention to the republican primary. republicans were but a lot of independents and democrats were not. they are paying attention to the economy and mitt romney is the best answer to the economy. >> thanks for coming on the show. i'm going to be really nice. you are a one great guy. any way, thank you.
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it confirms your reservation and the location your car is in, the moment you land. it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. we're back with breaking news. there are new developments in the secret service prostitution scandal down in colombia. michael isakoff is the national correspondent. what has been happening? >> the secret service just announced three more employ agents implicated agents in this have decided to resign, which brings us up to six of the original 11. plus, the statement tonight tells us that an additional agent has now been implicated in this. that brings it up to 12 who haven under investigation. one of the 12 has been cleared of serious misconduct, but faces
serious administrative action. getting rid of the employees, we're told director soloman has been pushed to get rid of as many as possible and only restrained by the lawyers involved. this investigation continues. >> i had a sense that the pressure has been pushing hard to solve this. >> we're told that brief today. for all the obvious reasons the white house wants this wrapped up as quickly as possible, but, there's still a lot of unanswered questions here. they hasn't been able to find if women involved. they've got investigators down there. >> let me ask you a question. these guys are guilty of this. if they resign, doç they get t protect their pensions? do they get to protect their medical benefits? are they okay? >> if you resign the presumption is you would retain your benefits. >> they won't be further
punished? >> that would be the reason to resign to avoid having to go through a proposal for removal as the secret service calls it. >> let me ask you about the whole impact on sullivan, does he look like he can make it? >> peter king and a lot of to congressional leaders have been supportive of him so far. you're starting to hear some mumbling. if this happened in this incident, did it happen before? >> thank you for that report. >> he retired from the secret service after 22 years. he served in charge of the president's detail for eight years under presidents clinton and bush. what do you make of the conducts? maybe there's three more or
three of them are in big trouble. what do you make of the postings where you put out a picture of sarah palin and they are making fun of her and talking about her in. >> well, chris, the secret service has long had a culture of absolute zero tolerance toward any personal misconduct. anything like this is a nightmare for secret service. i wouldç argue to anyone that suggest the culture of the secret service has changed to allow this thing, a culture that would allow this to happen day in and day out, it's not the case. >> here is a photo from david chaney. he is standing watch behind sarah palin in a 2008 campaign, and the comments for the photo, i was really checking her out, if you know what i mean? what do you make of that? >> it's our worth nigst nightma.
this is the sort of thing exactly that they are told not to do continuously. i don't know what to say to it other than every secret service agent that sees this cringes when they see it because they all know this is definitely against the rule of the secret service. >> well, i have to tell you i agree with you. the years of working with them at the white house and coming in contact with them i found them like at people at the buckingham palace. they don't edngage. i agree. when we return, let me finish with the one number that will determine whether obama or romney gets elected this year. the one number. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.
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it's 8.2 right now and that's the starting point. the question is where is it going to be the friday before election. here is hi hardball line. if the jobless number up near nine, obama has real trouble. anybody that says different sout of it or covering for him. anywhere near nine percent and the high eight percent it's bad news for the president. what a solid number for him? it's easy. if it drops to eight he's got a good case to make he's got things headed in the right direction. i know he and hi people will be talked into not bragging about a number. remember al gore booted it in 2000 for now taking credit for the strong economy for fear it will offend someone. the people will feel the president is on solid ground if it's down to 8% down from where its peak was when he took office, 10.2% in october 2009.
we'll be watching the big three hour and a half debates between obama and romney. it will be great theater. both candidates will be operating in an economic situation that will allow one to attack and the other to have to attack and the other to have to defend. decide as anything either of them have to say those nights. everything romney saying about obama failed will rise and fall on whether the jobless number is rising or falling. everything obama says about having done the right thing will determine if he's making real progress creating jobs or he's not. i can't think of anything that will distract from that number. eight obama wins. nine, romney wins. "the ed show" starts now. good evening, americans. george zimmerman took the stand and apologized for killing trayvon martin. the victim's family refused the